JEDI and ESG in the Built Environment: Beyond Buzzwords with Yiselle Santos Rivera
Yiselle is a dedicated design professional, who is currently a Principal and Global Director of Justice, Equity, Diversity & Inclusion at HKS. Originally a biology major at the University of Puerto Rico, her path pivoted to architecture, where she became a student leader and advocate for Latin American students. Post-graduation from Syracuse University, she advanced her career in Washington, D.C., notably at HOK and now at HKS Architects, making huge strides in championing diversity and inclusion. Rivera co-founded the AIA|DC LA.IDEA Committee, raising funds and awareness for Latin American designers. Her leadership in various AIA committees has been pivotal, fostering widespread engagement and earning recognition for her inclusive, collaborative approach.
Understanding ESG: A Closer Look with an Industry Expert
The terms “JEDI” and "ESG" have become a staple in discussions surrounding architecture and the built environment, yet we often miss their deeper meaning. Yiselle Santos Rivera, an advocate for meaningful spaces, takes us beyond the acronym, into the heart of what ESG truly means for the built environment.
Unpacking Yiselle’s Journey
Yiselle’s candid sharing of her personal journey—emphasizing the power of individual quirks and authenticity—mirrors the broader necessity for organizations to embrace diversity and inclusivity within their cultures. Her narrative reframes 'professionalism,' suggesting that embracing our full selves can enhance creativity and innovation.
Social Impact: The Heart of Sustainable Design
Diving into the 'S' of ESG, Yiselle shares social issues that intricately weave through the fabric of the built environment. From unionization to societal injustices, she shows that these factors are not mere backdrops but foundational elements that shape and are shaped by organizational policies and practices.
Governance: Steering the Ship Toward Positive Change
Governance, Yiselle argues, is the core element of an organization, helping it make decisions and deciding whether it will stand firm in the winds of change or crumble under pressure. She illustrates how governance structures can either enable or obstruct progress on critical social and environmental issues.
ESG in Practice: From Theory to Action
Yiselle advocates for a systemic approach to ESG, where principles are embedded in every level of decision-making, from the drawing board to the boardroom. This approach, she says, ensures that every project not only meets sustainability standards but also contributes positively to societal well-being.
The Way Forward: ESG as a Journey, Not a Destination
In conclusion, Yiselle’s insights encourage us to see ESG as a continuous journey of improvement and integration. The episode closes with a call to action for listeners to reconsider their approach to ESG, moving beyond mere compliance to a deeper, more genuine integration into their professional ethos.
Resources
Transcript
[00:00:00] Yiselle Santos Rivera: I would love to see these conversations be less sociopolitical and more intentional about what the goal is and why we're doing this and who we're doing it for because ultimately we're also like this is about us this is about each individual.
[00:00:20] Welcome to Changing Tomorrow with your host Gayathri Unnikrishnan. In each episode Gayathri talks to the people reshaping entire industries and societies. Changing tomorrow is the destination for the change makers of today. Here, we explore the mechanics of creating lasting impact, turning ideas into tools that shape a brighter future.
[00:00:41] So turn up the volume, grab a seat and join Gayathri for engaging conversations with those who are shaping the future right now. Welcome to changing tomorrow, because the future we want is built today.[00:01:00]
[00:01:03] Gayathri: Hi friends. Today, I'm talking to Yiselle Santos Rivera. She is an award winning activist architect who's done some tremendous work in bringing more diversity to the architecture field. She was named one of the top 50 women leaders in Washington, D. C. and is currently the principal and global director of Justice, Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion at HKS, which is a global architecture firm.
[00:01:30] So if you're in the building industry and curious about ESG or curious about diversity and inclusion in the building industry, today's episode is going to be a treat for you. So let's get started. Hey, Zell, I'm so excited to have you here today.
[00:01:46] Yiselle Santos Rivera: Thank you very much. I'm incredibly excited for the invitation and excited for the conversation.
[00:01:52] It's gonna
[00:01:52] Gayathri: be a real one.
[00:01:55] Yiselle Santos Rivera: Yes, it
[00:01:56] Gayathri: will. Okay, so we start all of our episodes [00:02:00] with the same question. And the question is, if you could have a superpower, what would it be?
[00:02:07] Yiselle Santos Rivera: Oh, I would love to have all the superpowers. I
[00:02:10] Gayathri: like the direction you're going in. Very greedy and cannot choose one.
[00:02:15] Yiselle Santos Rivera: Yes. That's what it's all about.
[00:02:16] Intersectionality. That's true. You need to be a, it compounds and it's the intersection of those things that will bring you to the ultimate superpower. Honestly, I'm Because my family's in Puerto Rico, and I love traveling, I would love to have the superpower of teleportation. But, currently, I am not a superhuman, so I'm learning that managing my anxiety, learning about my anxiety, and now learning a little bit more about ADHD.
[00:02:49] The positives of those, I feel like, are a superpower. Hyper awareness, which of course, it has its drawbacks, but it also builds a lot of empathy, [00:03:00] a lot of awareness of you and other people. So it's a little, like, telepathy or something of the sort. I love people and I love understanding people and I would love for people to understand me very clearly.
[00:03:15] So I think anxiety and ADHD start to do that for me because I've learned how to manage it. So if I had a magic wand, oh, teleportation. If I'm thinking about where I am today, leveraging neurodivergent aspects of myself. that make me feel like I can do better and I can do more for other people.
[00:03:37] Gayathri: You're reading my mind with teleportation.
[00:03:39] That is my go to as well. But tell me more. Tell me more about what have you learned about managing anxiety and ADHD? How are you applying it on a day to day
[00:03:52] Yiselle Santos Rivera: basis? Well, it's a journey, as with many things, I'm learning more about myself as I learn more about, you know, [00:04:00] these neurodivergent conditions, not only my own, but others.
[00:04:04] I'm very interested in, in how the mind works. I've always been interested in this. I've always been interested in psychology, how we think, and my background is in science. And so understanding how. The brain's morphology also aids or inhibits some of these neurotypical experiences that people have. So learning about all of these things obviously allows me to learn a little bit more about myself and also be kinder to myself.
[00:04:30] I grew up in a household of overachieving parents, which I love and adore, but that comes with its own challenges as well. So my mother is a glass ceiling breaking woman in Puerto Rico. My father is so driven and passionate and loving lawyer, hospital administrator, air force veteran, now chaplain and painter.
[00:04:55] My mom is turning 80 this year and she still has a [00:05:00] practice. She's a pediatric dentist. working full days. And she was also Dean, um, an advisor for several schools. She's still advising other schools that want to pursue accreditation and dentistry. So they have a lot of superpowers and growing up, knowing them and seeing them made me feel a little bit anxious about my own growth and my own opportunities to excel, right?
[00:05:29] Because I compared myself to my parents because they're amazing. And I went to a local Catholic school, incredibly competitive. where if you didn't speak up, if you weren't present, if you didn't like almost talk over people, it meant that you weren't paying attention. So I learned about all of these things based on my culture and my upbringing, and I brought them to the U.
[00:05:50] S. The U. S. culture is very different. So I, sometimes I confused cultural and societal [00:06:00] patterns with my own anxiety and other patterns that I had in my life. I just They all intermixed onto each other. Right, it's just your experience, yeah. Exactly. It was just my lived experience. And it wasn't until I took on this role and I started to really intentionally deep dive into all these parts of other people's identities that I started to learn more about my own.
[00:06:25] So what I learned about neurodivergent populations, which I'm definitely still learning, I'm by no means an expert, no, I imagine I ever will be. But what I learn in these spaces trying to create safety for other people in neurodivergent populations to share their own stories, I started to see myself. So I would start to see a little bit of Of things like, okay, this looks like actual anxiety.
[00:06:53] It doesn't look or sound like other people's experience when they're speaking in public. [00:07:00] I had legitimate panic and I still do speaking in public and people think that I love this, that I love standing and speaking in public and doing these podcasts. This is legitimately terrifying. I overthink everything that I say, although in the moment, I probably won't remember anything of what I'm saying right now.
[00:07:21] But at the end, I start rethinking everything that I say or do. I wonder about my own thought process, my own thinking, about the validity of my thoughts, how people are going to perceive them when I'm chatting and they're coming from me. But then I started, so at the beginning, of course, I was thinking this was an issue, that this was a drawback, that this was...
[00:07:44] Something that everybody went through, but I had an inability to overcome this. Yes, like there was something subpar about me that I wasn't able to overcome because I saw all these other people doing these things and they [00:08:00] seemed so at ease. And then I started doing this and people telling me, no, you seem so at ease the way that your conversation flows and you're so animated.
[00:08:09] And in my mind, I'm thinking, I have no idea. What the words that are coming out of my mouth. I have no idea what's going on. I barely remember what is happening during these moments of a lot of anxiety. Everybody knew that I stopped eating the day before any presentation, two hours before, please don't talk to me.
[00:08:28] And then I get in such a high at the end of these conversations because, you know, your emotions, everything is so tied up to maintaining that composure or letting your anxiety. And I wasn't thinking I was masking or covering, like, this is all language that I learned. That I knew about, but I didn't understand my place in that language until I started doing the work of being a director of justice, equity, diversity, and inclusion.
[00:08:54] And the more I learned about other people, the more I wanted to create safe spaces for them. [00:09:00] I started to realize that I was also creating safe spaces for me to speak up and be more fearless. You know, I would love to be completely brave and fearless. It's hard to do. I value that and I admire it and other people and it's strange when other people say that about me because they don't know what's happening under the tip of the iceberg, right underneath.
[00:09:20] It's like what do they say about the ducks, that you just see this beautiful swan or ducks across the pond, but you have no idea what's happening under the water. It's just like this frenetic thing under the water. But I also love what I do. So learning about other people allowed me to be more introspective and recognize that at That anxiety makes me be more on, makes me also be more authentic, because I have to shed everything if I truly want to show up, even though I barely remember.
[00:09:52] So some of these things... I've learned to appreciate them in the moment. Of course, I, I'm not a fan of them at the beginning or [00:10:00] after when I crash. I always say for a long time, every time I did an event, everybody knew that two hours later I had to eat a cheeseburger and then I would pass out. That still happens.
[00:10:10] But now I value those things are part of how I manage my anxiety. I've created these patterns for myself to help manage these things. And there's so much power in all of those things that I do for myself, that I can help other people understand themselves a little bit better. I know that if I don't overthink things and I just let things happen, I experience a lot more joy, and I think there's a lot more authenticity in what happens if I just let it go because it's, it's hard to let it go when you have anxiety and ADHD, you're so focused on being present.
[00:10:48] You've masked and covered all your life. You're, as they call it, a high functioning. person on one spectrum or the other, and it's, you're high functioning because you've managed for so [00:11:00] long to overcome and you've built these patterns to let other people see the side of you that you felt was comfortable for them.
[00:11:10] And now I value those, but now I also value recognizing when I'm more comfortable letting the mask down. And that's when, of course, I'm usually told that I'm very extroverted and very loud and very Latina. I get asked if I dance on tables and now I go, okay, that's not a bad thing. I'm shedding more of that and showing up more authentically.
[00:11:32] Of course, I need to manage that. If I do this here in the U. S., it's very different than do it in Puerto Rico. It's very different than going abroad. But I start to see some of those shifts. as empowerment and less as things that I have to do in order to fit. And it's one of the reasons I also love the conversation about belonging versus fitting in.
[00:11:54] Many people talk about this all the time, but I love, now I've, I'm really good friends with [00:12:00] Heather Currier Hunt, now at Perkins and Will. She previously was IDEO. And I remember in 2019, I was watching her present, and she was explaining what belonging meant. And usually people talk, you know, diversity is, you know, dressing up however you wanted the party.
[00:12:15] Equity is being invited to the party. Inclusion is being invited to dance. And belonging is letting your freak flag fly and dancing however you want to dance. And that was so, I remember her saying it, I think it was a LCI conference. And I immediately fell madly in love with her. I was like, this is phenomenal.
[00:12:38] Because it's so clear. That imagery is just so fun and clear. Before I was afraid of dancing however I wanted to dance. Because I was told, I was actually told, Oh, you're a, you're one of those wild Latinas. You like dancing on tables. And in my mind, I think, I've never, I would never sit on a table and dance to other Latinas.[00:13:00]
[00:13:00] I've never seen them unless they were really young. It just, when people say things like this, I know they're trying to be funny and trying to build a bridge. But in my mind, I'm thinking. What are they seeing that they come up with these things? Yeah, for me,
[00:13:15] Gayathri: it's like, what am I putting out there? What did I, what did I do?
[00:13:20] Yeah, yeah.
[00:13:24] Yiselle Santos Rivera: But now I realize that's about them, not me. But it took me a very long time, and I still have to catch myself. And now I wonder, what would happen if I did dance on tables? What would that look like? I've never allowed myself to do that. So, I strive consistently to move towards belonging, even for myself.
[00:13:45] And for other people. Well, what does it look like to letting your freak flag fly? Does it look like dancing on tables? And what's wrong with that? If you're not tipping anything over and you're fine, what would it look like to really do that? So that was a very long answer [00:14:00] to a very wonderful question.
[00:14:01] I'm sorry. This
[00:14:01] Gayathri: was a really great answer and a very thorough answer. And I love how you explained how you make systems that work for you and you kind of. did that for many years in a way that was intuitive to you and you held it against yourself. Oh my god, I can't eat the previous day or I need to have a cheeseburger.
[00:14:20] I'm going to crash. But the reality from my experience is that like these are seen as quirks. When Steve Jobs does it, you know, he's like, okay, he wakes up and wears the same outfit every day. Look, I love everything's Apple. I, I love Apple. Okay. To a fault. This is a problem. But when he wakes up and wears the same outfit every day, it's on the cover and in every single magazine as like this cool thing that this genius does.
[00:14:48] But maybe the reality is that we just need to be able to embrace. what we need to become our own version of genius and [00:15:00] you learning to embrace all these aspects of yourself because I've heard you speak and you're a powerful speaker to get there is just you working with who you are just like all the geniuses of past has have done if you just look at I love looking at morning routine of anybody who's this wild tortured genius.
[00:15:21] love, you know, with like 50 books about them, they will always have different aspects of different routines. So thank you for sharing your journey and being so vulnerable. It was just a reality check for me because I tend to do that too. I'm like master overthinker, so awkward at networking events, I have no idea what to say after asking about the weather, I will just Clam up, sit silently and make the other person feel so uncomfortable that they say they're going to get another drink.
[00:15:51] Like that's my experience at every networking event I've ever been to. So. [00:16:00]
[00:16:00] Yiselle Santos Rivera: Oh my goodness. Same. Same. And then I get home and I go, why did I just? Oh my gosh. That person must have thought, what is wrong with this individual? It's so funny. All the things that we put in ourselves. I love that you are comparing me.
[00:16:22] Yes. I'm in. I mean, thank you.
[00:16:31] I'll take it. I'll take both. Hey.
[00:16:35] Gayathri: But thank you for sharing that. I mean, I think it's a very interesting way for me and for the people listening in to reframe things that they know that they need to do, whether it's waking up and maybe doomscrolling for 15 minutes. And that's okay. That's the way you wake up.
[00:16:50] That's okay. You know, Dr. Huberman, who's great, says that you need to go get sunlight in the first 15 minutes of your day. And that could [00:17:00] be biologically right for a circadian rhythm, but at this point, we're just all trying to survive. So, you know, I think we need to find ways that work for us and who we are instead of the people in the magazines.
[00:17:14] So thank you for sharing that. So let's talk about ESG and I want to focus in on the S and G. I think E is environmental, there's a lot of information out there. S and G, social and governance, are the little bit more intangible, ambiguous aspects of ESG. So with your role in your experience and the work that you've done from your perspective, what is social and governance when we're talking about the built environment, social impact and
[00:17:46] Yiselle Santos Rivera: governance?
[00:17:48] That's a really great question and it's very pertinent at the moment because I'm, I'm hearing a lot of conversations around ESG and [00:18:00] people reacting to the terminology, people conflating what it means. And it's also very dependent on the angle that you're really viewing this through. So environmental tends to be a more comfortable topic for many people.
[00:18:16] And what I hear most of the time is when people say ESG, they're really talking about sustainability. They're really talking about one aspect. They overlap a little bit of the social aspects that have to do with some social and climate injustices. And the governance piece Tends to be moved towards.
[00:18:36] different aspects that are at least within the built environment. People think about finance and people think about, you know, where you're putting your money and how that's affecting some organizations. So stock options and, and all of those things, what I've learned. And I'm, again, I'm not an expert by any [00:19:00] means.
[00:19:00] I've just been part of these conversations for over four years. When I think about. The S and ESG. And I think about social issues. I think about the issues that are happening in society that impact how we view the built environment and how we view those social constructs, those social issues as a means of affecting the work that we do as an organization and vice versa.
[00:19:30] So for example, one of the things that I talked about when I was explaining what ESG meant for me when the built environment as an organization. When I was talking about that at HKS, I said, for example, one of the social issues that could impact our industry and how we do work could be unionizations, unions.
[00:19:52] the creation of unions in the industry and in the practices in the firms. And this was happening [00:20:00] also when I brought this up, it was happening. It was at the same time that things were happening in New York where some individuals were thinking about creating a union, an architect's union. We don't have one in, in the United States, but what if that would happen?
[00:20:18] If we were to create a union or if that were to happen, that's a social issue and a social construct that affects how we address social issues within each organization that ultimately affect the profession. So other social issues that affect, that have affected the profession in a way, of course, and we know this.
[00:20:39] Was the murder of George Floyd stop Asian hate when things happen, for example, in disadvantaged or disenfranchised countries like what happened in Haiti and the earthquakes, what happened in Katrina, a very long time? What happened with Hurricane Sandy in New York City, those things that are [00:21:00] social issues, like they're of course, they're environmental issues that affect the social constructs, who is most affected by those environmental issues?
[00:21:10] It usually are, it usually happens within communities that are disenfranchised and marginalized. Who are those people in the United States, those marginalized communities tend to be racially? divided or they, they tend to be underrepresented also within the community, within the industry. So that's a chain of events that bring in the social constructs and the social inequities of what's happening in the world into the profession, because those people are impacted by the built environment.
[00:21:42] And thus we have to then address those issues. Organizationally, because those people are a part of the communities that we impact. So it just comes full circle. So for me, the S is really how each organization addresses the social issues of its time [00:22:00] through the organization, through its people and through their deliverables.
[00:22:04] The governance piece is how our organization and how the systems, policies. The board who's in leadership, how the organizational structure is formed and delivered in order to enable or inhibit progressing on positive social issues and positive social change and environmental change. So the governance piece is what is the infrastructure in an organization that is aligned with the value of supporting and making society better and making environmental changes for positive impact on climate change.
[00:22:44] All of those things need to be aligned in order for us to have a positive impact on planet, profit, and people, which is the underpinning of ESG. Which started as corporate social responsibility. It's the intersection of people, planet, and [00:23:00] profit. If we do all of these things, and we are aware of all of these things, then our deliverables as designers of the built environment will also impact how people view the built environment, the social construct.
[00:23:14] And the system that are in place, for example, in each state, how they all impact everybody's wellbeing and health. That's sort of how I view how the S and the G overlap with the E and become more of a value proposition for. All of us in architecture and design firms and are deliverable, how we impact our communities, how we make the world better and how we enable the built environment, which is the backdrop of our lives.
[00:23:49] And I'm not saying it as the backdrop in a way that it's minimizing. It's just the actual scenario, the actual backdrop of how we live our lives. So for me, [00:24:00] those are three values that intertwine, create a proposition for a better way of life. That's
[00:24:06] Gayathri: a really comprehensive explanation of ESG. And what I'm understanding is that you're saying it's a way of operating.
[00:24:12] It's a journey. It's not the destination to put it. very simply. Do you think that there is potential or there is a need for ESG at the project level or at the building level for one building? Or do you think it's even possible to do it that way? Or do you think it needs to be done by the organizations?
[00:24:32] Yiselle Santos Rivera: I think they all have to work together in order to make this feasible, right? An organization needs to have a clear infrastructure that supports how social issues are addressed, which impact the people that work in the organization. They need to be aware of the decisions that we make in even our footprint as an organization and our clients and the footprint that we're going to create with our [00:25:00] buildings.
[00:25:00] To create positive impact in the built environment and the governance structure for every organization needs to enable the people in each organization to be able to do those two things effectively with our clients and our communities. So everything to me is incremental, you know, the organizational piece of the firm, how we talk about shareholders and shares, how we talk about people that do not have shares, if, you know, an ESOP is very different than a C Corp is very different than a B Corp is very, of course, it's very different than an S Corp, are all of those infrastructures supporting that value proposition of empowering people to discuss social issues, how you're going to address social issues and their designs and how they're going to make society better.
[00:25:53] Does it enable people to pick materials, to make decisions on environmental issues and [00:26:00] constructs so that our footprint, but also the footprint that we are creating with our clients, enables that, enables positive climate impact on the communities. So we are part of a longer thread. We are every part of who we are, what we do, who we do it with and who we do it for needs to be considered through this environmental and ESG lens.
[00:26:22] So for me, Jedi is Jedi at HKS lives under the ESG umbrella intentionally. ESG is covered by Design Green, which is a studio that looks at sustainability. Inevitably, sustainability also has to address climate justice and climate change. Climate justice is the overlap of JEDI in the environmental issue.
[00:26:45] JEDI also overlaps on the governance issue because we have to support how we do business, which is a governance issue. And then vice versa. So they all have to work together in order for all of these things. [00:27:00] To, to really be positive markers along this journey. If we have our house in order, then we are better able to create teams that think about this process and a label this process within their design framework.
[00:27:18] If our people have a good grasp on what this means that are better able to articulate it to our clients. And if our clients really understand what this value proposition is, is with us. They can also better understand how they position themselves organizationally to do that beyond what we do when we're contributing to this project together.
[00:27:41] So we may enable that new organization to think holistically through this lens. If we do this with our client, then they are better positioned to help us make decisions that better impact the community long term. So then our communities. are affected. And if we think about each building as a [00:28:00] contribution beyond the boundaries of that perimeter, then we also start to think about our place within the infrastructure of a community, of a city, of an urban space, of a rural space.
[00:28:11] So at least for me in an ideal world, we would all understand our position within this continuum, and we would know that our decisions impact everybody else's decision within this continuum. So we are all responsible for the positive impact. And when we don't do this, and we don't do this holistically, we are enabling status quo.
[00:28:35] We are enabling the things that we are trying to positively affect.
[00:28:41] Gayathri: It does need a systems thinking approach, and the Jedi piece probably lives in the little triangle that we see between E, S, and G. So it's, it's absolutely the lens, and it's absolutely the starting point, I think, for Most things that we touch upon, whether it's [00:29:00] writing an email to seeing who's at your table when you're having the charrettes or having a meeting, there's this wonderful document that I'll share on the show notes and I'll share with you that I love it.
[00:29:13] That kind of gives like these diagrams on like things that we need to keep in mind if you're looking at equity. And it's things like, what words are you using in your meeting? Who has not spoken today? So I love that holistic approach that you've outlined because what we are seeing essentially in the industry is just these glossy.
[00:29:34] And it's actually a way of working and unfortunately it's been reduced to a way of reporting, which both are very, very different things. So in that direction, is there a misconception that you're seeing in the industry that you think, you know, you either disagree with or you can reframe?
[00:29:51] Yiselle Santos Rivera: What many of us are seeing is That because of a lot of things that are happening, sociopolitically, this [00:30:00] terminology gets associated very quickly with a political stance or a particular belief instead of a value to the work that we do, in addition to how we view the world, as opposed to, instead of how we view the world and many of these things because they're being polarized and they're being used as weapons sort of being weaponized.
[00:30:27] We forget what we are really trying to do with this framework, this framework or ESG, corporate social responsibility, JEDI, sustainability. This is really about resiliency of our world, of our people, of what we do, of our businesses. And when we forget what the overall goal is, it's easy for us to break things apart.
[00:30:52] And Right now, ESG is sort of a bad word. It's something that people [00:31:00] are pushing against. It's being seen as, as just a value of a particular group or another. For me, it doesn't mean like my political affiliation, my religious belief, you know, being part of a community or not being part of a community that's in addition to.
[00:31:16] It's an addition to, it's just a lens that I still see the world through, but my identity is still there and it, it can be distinct. You know, I can be a woman and Latina and, and believe in the value of sustainability and I could see it as not, obviously I think. We should do better for our communities, for our people, for ourselves, for the people that will be here long after we're here and gone.
[00:31:45] But I would love to see these conversations be less socio political. and more intentional about what the goal is and why we're doing this and who we're doing it for because ultimately we're also like this [00:32:00] is about us this is about each individual this is about our health our well being our safety and if we can't align on these things that are good for in my opinion and of course this is my opinion that ultimately are good for everybody Then we're also doing ourselves a disservice.
[00:32:22] So I, I would love for people to find themselves in this conversation, find their voice in this conversation through whatever lens allows them to see that they are, and will always be a valuable contributor to this conversation, as opposed to seeing themselves as othered or themselves as distinct of this, as if they don't have anything to do with it, every action that we make.
[00:32:47] is either supportive of this or not. There's no in between. So I would love for people to find themselves here, find their place here, because they have a voice. Whether they may believe right now it's positive or negative, [00:33:00] every voice needs to be at the table and it needs to be considered and the outcome of those needs to be part of the conversation.
[00:33:07] I hope I answered that in a way that made sense.
[00:33:10] Gayathri: You absolutely did. I read this really cool quote the other day that said, every job is a sustainability job, which means that you don't necessarily need to move into sustainability, the field of sustainability. We should be making impactful decisions in whatever we do on a day to day basis, because everyone's making decisions, right?
[00:33:31] And unfortunately, what we're seeing is that companies are thinking in terms of quarterly profits. on a good day, yearly profits, you know, the political cycles run four to five years, depending on where you're staying, where you're living. And what we are talking about here is the work of generations. And that is, Way more than quarterly or four yearly timelines, right?
[00:33:56] So if somebody wanted to kind of start [00:34:00] integrating the things that you mentioned in their day to day work and find their place in the conversation, very often they need to create buy in of the people around them. Do you have any recommendations of how people can go about doing
[00:34:13] Yiselle Santos Rivera: that? I get this question quite often, and it's usually, I just don't know where to start.
[00:34:19] And that's the hardest thing of anything in the world, is starting. Once you start, you learn either you did the right thing or you made a mistake and you learn from that and you keep going. It's that fear or that doubt. of not knowing where this is going to go or the reaction from other people. I think for me, what has worked best and what I hope will work for other people or something that other people could gravitate towards is when I learned that I was very passionate about Elevating other people's voices, because I, honestly, at the very beginning, I did not find a lot of value in my voice.
[00:34:59] [00:35:00] But I, I loved creating spaces for other people to shine. And I started very slow, with things like creating Pecha Kuchas in DC, and inviting people to tell their stories, and then being so inspired by their stories, that it made me want to create more. And that was 2006 or seven. And it was building those platforms that allowed me visibility.
[00:35:26] And other people started asking me what I learned and what I thought about these things that I was learning, which is something that I'm very inspired by, by you, by what you're doing, which is exactly the same thing. You're creating this phenomenal infrastructure for people to share their stories, but that also builds your capacity because now you're tying all these stories together and you're better able to articulate not only your place, but how you see all of these things interconnected.
[00:35:54] So all of that to say. Start with what makes you feel comfortable. [00:36:00] Start with short conversations. Start with aligning yourself with people that are doing great work, that are doing things that inspire you. Start asking questions. You'd be very surprised what could happen from those conversations. The first time that I thought about the WIELD event, the Women Inspiring Emerging Leaders in Design event, I didn't know what it was going to be.
[00:36:23] I just knew that I wanted Voices of women in DC that were succeeding from emerging professionals to firm owners. I just wanted to hear their stories because rarely do we focus on stories and we overfocus on what we don't see from other people, right? We just see the highlight reel. We see the tip of the iceberg, but we don't see what's happening underneath.
[00:36:50] And for me, learning about their stories, the complexity around their stories made me more comfortable with my own story and my journey. And when I was asked [00:37:00] if I could share my own journey, I understood why people were asking me that. I was still completely in a panic and almost hysterical with anxiety, but I understood the value of that.
[00:37:12] So when people wonder how to get engaged, For example, if it's your office and you are seeing that there are no conversations around issues of equity on inclusion, AIA has a phenomenal guide for equitable practice. And I remember one of the first things that I thought of doing was start a book club, tackle a chapter a week, a chapter about compensation, a chapter about networking.
[00:37:39] A chapter about workplace culture, and then you start creating a language that better equips you to understand where your firm is, who are your peers, who are your villagers, like who are the people that are going to be part of your village that are going to do this with you. And also you need to understand very [00:38:00] well the organization that you're in, the organization that you want to be a part of, the organization that you left behind, and be curious about why, why did you leave that place?
[00:38:09] Was it just because, you know, your manager? Was it just because of this? Start thinking about what, what were the systems that enabled my boss to be that way? What were the systems that enabled me to feel? Like I couldn't contribute. Is it a person? Is it a system? Is it a group of people? Was I just at the wrong place at the wrong time without the tools to advance?
[00:38:30] What do I need to learn to move ahead? Do I need to adapt better? It's not about me changing who I am. It's how do I adapt without losing myself? What are those tools? I think for me, the conversation is always about being curious and allowing yourself to be curious in a way that makes you feel safe. So it could be outside of your organization.
[00:38:50] Maybe, you know, it's like asking anybody in your family, in your community, a loved one, a partner to [00:39:00] be everything, to be the end all be all for you. You may be able to find it, but that's a really hard ask of anybody. Like people, not everybody can be a parental figure and a good partner and a good friend and a good advisor.
[00:39:15] You need to find those things in many different places. So why do sometimes we think that our firm needs to be everything for us? What if you have a group in the community that feeds and fills your soul because it's doing some amazing policy work that you may never be able to do in the architecture profession, but it's still a way to contribute and what you're learning that you're bringing back to your organization.
[00:39:40] What if it's a parents, a PTA group? Uh, what if it's an AIA chapter, a NOMA chapter? What if it's IWBI or IFLA, like Living Futures? Find those people in those conversations. that you want to learn more from, and you will eventually become the thought leader, and then you will be able to make an impact. But [00:40:00] that happens over time.
[00:40:01] That's not something that happens immediately. And you also need to give yourself grace to be part of that journey and have it. lead you where you need to go. You may be thinking right now, I like, Oh, I want to get there XYZ. I never imagined that a role of director of Jedi would ever exist, much less within the architecture industry.
[00:40:23] And now I'm here trying to figure this out. We're all trying to figure this out. But I was, I was doing some of this work outside of HKS, uh, with AIA, with other people. And then I found myself leading conversations. And now people reach out to me to learn, but I learn more from them in having those conversations.
[00:40:44] Be visible, be comfortable in making mistakes, be curious and ask questions. And I think things will eventually find you. And
[00:40:53] Gayathri: just start. It's not going to be perfect. Just start. It's terrifying. But I think what you said [00:41:00] about putting those pecha kucha aspects is something that I think, it sounds really scary, and I would love to learn more about that, but it's something that probably wasn't perfect the first time around, but you started and you learned so much and you honed it and you made it in a way that is...
[00:41:19] Special and elevated you. Giselle. Where can folks find you if they wanted to reach out, if they wanted to get in touch?
[00:41:29] Yiselle Santos Rivera: I am available through LinkedIn, so Gisel Santos, I am on Instagram. Giselle story tells I am on email. You can contact at ySantos@hksinc.com. Usually what I'm learning is people contact me quite a bit through LinkedIn and I try to do my best to be on the platform and look at my messages and.
[00:41:57] I'm usually very overwhelmed, so if I don't [00:42:00] respond, it's not on you. It's me. I'm sorry. I try very hard to be available because I wish other people had been there for me. I value enormously the people that have been, and whenever I can, I'm more than happy to give my time to anybody, and that adds more people to my village, and hopefully I learn, and I always do, actually, learn from each other.
[00:42:26] So yeah, you can find me everywhere, apparently. I've heard people see things that I've never seen. Okay,
[00:42:33] Gayathri: but you recently launched a book.
[00:42:35] Yiselle Santos Rivera: Yes, recently I had the amazing honor of helping put together a new book called Out in Architecture, which is available on Blurb right now. And the initial thought about the book was about visibility.
[00:42:52] I was starting to see A lot of people with so much energy talk about a lot of issues, particularly those [00:43:00] around race and ethnicity. And again, a lot of socio political issues have been targeting the LGBTQIA community for a while. And even though we've always been here, that conversation had not been prevalent.
[00:43:14] And Many more Gen Zers and people coming up in the profession are more comfortable with gender fluidity, using different pronouns. And what I wanted was to build visibility of those that are in the profession, that want to be also visible and be available to be part of the change. And I just found this amazing group of people that were very supportive and they all said yes.
[00:43:43] Sarah Woynich, Beau Frail, Amy Rosen, A. L. Hugh, Laura Teagarden, Ryan Gann. Sorry, I know I'm probably forgetting somebody and I'm so sorry if I am. But we all came together. [00:44:00] And we all felt like this was the right time to provide visibility for the LGBTQIA community. And this is just the first drop in that ripple.
[00:44:11] And I hope that others find their voice as well within this book. They learn about... Others that are not like themselves. So obviously speaking to the ally community and people that are not part of the LGBTQ community so that you can hear and learn what it is for us to go through the world, how the built environment impacts us and people in our community, and also help make better decisions and ask better questions when you are in a team, in a group.
[00:44:40] Because the built environment does affect the LGBTQIA community. And we are intersectional, like all races, all genders, all abilities. It's a cross section of everybody. And I, when we were at the NOMA conference, I said, you know, I hope that when I die, we're on volume 45. [00:45:00] And it's so inclusive and wonderful.
[00:45:02] And these are stories of joy. These are stories of community building. And these are stories about community. and people and heart and overcoming and resilience. Thank you for reminding me about the book. But I'm so grateful that I had the opportunity to, to have a dream and have people join me in making this dream a reality.
[00:45:24] And hopefully it's just the beginning. I
[00:45:25] Gayathri: can't wait to read that book, and I will link it for the folks listening in. Thank you so much, Giselle. This was such a special conversation, and I cannot wait to see volumes two, three, four, five, six of your book. Thank you again for your time. This has just been so lovely.
[00:45:45] Yiselle Santos Rivera: Well, thank you for the invitation. Thank you. early on for the therapy. I'm so grateful that you found me and now you're definitely on speed dial and part of my village. And it's amazing what you're doing. I congratulate you [00:46:00] and thank you for inspiring many of us to continue doing this work through your vision.
[00:46:05] Thank you. Thank you.
[00:46:07] Gayathri: If you're still here, cheers to you. If you want to know more about what we discussed today, check out the blog post and the resources in the show notes, as well as our website, which is www. makeitlivable. co. I am also very excited to announce that we will be releasing a newsletter, which is really going to capture the trends that you're seeing when we are talking about creating purpose driven organizations and purpose driven spaces.
[00:46:37] So I highly encourage you to check that out and would love it if you subscribe. All of it can be found on the website, www. makeitliveable. co. Hope you have a lovely day and see you in two weeks.